07 February 2013 @ 09:03 am
So what really happened?  


I had the pleasure of reading two parts (both complete) of a New Caprica fic entitled:

Dusk to Dawn, and

The Breaking of the Dawn, both by Louise Ellis. Links are to the Survival Instinct archive (membership required).

They got me to thinking about just what we feel went down on NC during the occupation. Four questions for you guys:

1. What do you feel was Laura's role with the resistance?
2. Do you feel that Gaius Baltar was able to protect Laura, as he said in Occupation/Precipice or did more go on?
3. If Laura had not returned from NC, do you think Bill would have been able to work with Zarek? How does the aftermath of NC change?
4. What did Bill and Laura's reunion look like in your fanon?
 
 
( 13 comments — Leave a comment )
astreamofstars: laura bill lipsastreamofstars on February 7th, 2013 02:23 pm (UTC)
#1 I think she was probably mostly on the information gathering/strategising side of things. She's someone that people would have trusted, and she would have been well-placed, as a teacher, to be in touch with a lot of members of the public, so I could see her being able to find things out quite easily. And she's so much a big picture person that she would make sense to be in there working out strategies of how to deal with the cylons. We also know that she was seemingly coordinating rescue operations even before Adama returned, so I expect that she and Tory were very involved in that side of things - ways to protect people and get them ready for escape.

I don't see her actively being involved in the bombings or anything like that. It's not her forte. Though maybe if they'd been there longer, she might have started getting involved like that.

#2 I think she was probably brought in there quite a few times - I don't think that the one time we saw her in detention was the first time she was there. It makes no sense that they would have ignored her all that time, and then brought her in once, left her alone to only be spoken to by Gaius, and then put heron a death list, especially considering Gaius was talking about her escape as being a terrible blow for the cylons. I don't know that I think she was seriously physically tortured? Perhaps minor physical torture, but nothing like what happened to Saul, because we just never see any evidence of that, and on Laura, who is far more, IDK, delicate physically than most of the other people who were in detention, you would expect it to take a toll on her.

But psychological tortutes, yes, to try to get her to break. I imagine there would be a lot of mindgames with her, trying to get her to accept responsibility for what happened, trying to get her to believe it's all her fault, showing her what was happening to her people. That would work best on her, I'd think.

Gaius ... I think he probably was able to protect her a little bit, purely by telling them that physical torture wouldn't work on her. I don't know what else he could have done, considering he seemed incapable of taking care of himself, even, but I could see him trying, a little bit, to talk them out of doing certain things.

#3 I think maybe Bill would have had to suck it up and tried to, at least. I think losing Laura, and potentially other people he loved, would have left him quite broken, rather than defiant, and he would have ended up more likely to just go along with the status quo.

As for changes to the aftermath, I don't think the circle would have been stopped, and there wouldn't be a truth and reconciliation commission, so that would have made a big difference in how the fleet tried to move on. Down the line, I don't see the cylon alliance happening, or the mutiny, but I could see Bill struggling with working with Zarek and things either breaking down down the line and the fleet splitting, or Bill stepping aside and handing more of the running of the ship over to Lee/Helo/Saul, potentially.

#4 I don't really seem them rushing into a reunion - I mean, I don't see them rushing into a romantic style reunion, to be honest. I think their main priorities, Laura's particularly, would be the fleet, not each other. I imagine whatever happened between them happened probably days after the actual rescue, and wasn't a 'fall into bed, missed you so much' type of thing. I think it would have been slow, and a little awkward, both of them trying to find their feet again, and Laura trying to get used to being president again and what that might mean. I don't know, really. I think there would have been a certain distance there. Gratitude and relief that the other one was still alive, but not a desperate dive back into a relationship.
larsfarm77: Laura detentionlarsfarm77 on February 7th, 2013 07:45 pm (UTC)
Love your thoughts!

1. I agree with you, here. I could also see the argument that the entire resistance would want Roslin on the periphery. She's the key piece in rebuilding once they get off NC, someone they could dearly not afford to lose.

2. You make a great point with psychological vs. physical torture and what would have been more or less effective.

3. I have a hard time deciding whether Bill would dig in further, knowing he was what was left for the Fleet or if he would have gone the route of post nuked Earth. Laura saw how Zarek was on NC, but Bill didn't and really wouldn't have any other reason to trust him.

4. I can totally see it as a gradual thing. How much longer than the missing year was the occupation? It would still definitely take time to switch gears.
aka_plynn: oath kissaka_plynn on February 7th, 2013 06:19 pm (UTC)
1. Basically astreamofstars answer above. Coordination of escape plans/information and strategy were likely where she fit.

2. I think Baltar wanted to protect her, but as for actually getting the Cylons to go easy on her? I doubt he had the ability. I think any influence he tried to exert was probably laughed off.

3. I think Bill would've resigned before working with Zarek. I don't think he would've overthrown him, though it might've been tempting, but I don't think he would've ever been able to work with him.

Who would've led in his place though? Not Saul, who wouldn't have had Bill to threaten him out of his post-NC depression (because Bill would've been his own wreck, I think). Is Helo next in line? Would the man married to a Cylon been allowed to lead the military?

4. I think they reunited by phone first. Laura went up on "her" ship, and they both had so much to deal with in those first few days that I don't think an in-person meeting happened for at least two days.

But there was a call while they were high-tailing it away from New Caprica, just an "I'm here" really, and I wish we'd gotten even that.
larsfarm77larsfarm77 on February 7th, 2013 07:50 pm (UTC)
I think Baltar wanted to protect her, but as for actually getting the Cylons to go easy on her? I doubt he had the ability. I think any influence he tried to exert was probably laughed off.

I agree, and I think his own well honed sense of self preservation would have gotten in the way of any help he might have intellectually wanted to provide.

3. THat's an interesting question about who would lead. I assume since there was no challenge to Helo being an XO (and thus second in command) that there would be no objection to his commanding (though this would be more obvious and might create more uproar). It might have to be Lee, as someone who could bridge both civilian and military.

4. But there was a call while they were high-tailing it away from New Caprica, just an "I'm here" really, and I wish we'd gotten even that.

That would have been amazing!!
aka_plynn: Facepalmaka_plynn on February 8th, 2013 01:07 am (UTC)
I ... completely forgot about Lee. Sorry, Lee!

Let's be real, if Lee had ended up in charge it would've been Dee really running the Fleet.
larsfarm77: eh?larsfarm77 on February 8th, 2013 02:21 am (UTC)
Oh yeah ... I wonder if Dee would have stayed with Lee longer? Wait, she left him over his treatment of Laura on the stand. Guess that wouldn't happen in this scenario!
larsfarm77: Laura detentionlarsfarm77 on February 7th, 2013 08:03 pm (UTC)
1. The more I think about it, the more on the periphery I think the resistance would want Laura to be. Sure, they were short on leadership, but Laura is the cornerstone of recovery once the occupation is over, so someone too valuable to risk. I agree with both commenters above that her social role, among students and parents and the community in general, would make her an ideal person to weed out traitors. The question I have is whether Laura would be able to stop herself from becoming more deeply involved. And ... would the cylons treat her as someone who knows more than she does just because of her former position?

2. No, despite intentions, I don't think Baltar had any real power. I don't think Cavil has any regard for life at all, and would do anything, treat anyone as badly as necessary to get himself out of the situation. Laura is far too tempting a source of information. I do also think that there could be dissension in the ranks of the cylons as to prisoner treatment, and Laura might have found an ally or two.

3. As astreamofstars said, I think the circle would have gone on unabated, and there would have been plenty of trials and executions. I can't decide whether Bill would dig in, knowing that Laura would have wanted him to take care of the Fleet. If he does start re-painting the walls in his quarters, then I would look to Lee. He could work with Zarek.

4. This depends on how close they got on NC. If they had a romantic relationship (which, I won't lie, is my fanon) then I do see a more physical reunion. I'm not sure they could overlook two second chances (Laura's cure and Laura's rescue). I do see them then coming to an agreement that they might have to leave behind what they had on NC for the good of the Fleet. That said, I would have been happy with aka_plynn's phone call. At least that would hav been an acknowledgement!
rococo: Laura Resistance Leaderrococoms on February 7th, 2013 11:11 pm (UTC)
I discovered those stories the other day and loved them, so this is all very fresh in my mind!

1. I think a lot of Laura's role was in name- instead of it just being a bunch of people getting together to start anarchy, her presence in it lent it credibility and legitimacy. It would have been easier to bring people into the resistance, with the pitch of "the former president is behind/leading this" then "we're gonna throw a bunch of bombs and not get killed.

Aside from that, her role was organizational, in the ways that she could be useful. Keeping track of people, names, etc, but also, continuing to do her thing (teach) to throw suspicion off of her, and give the resistance a place to gather around within reason.

2. I don't think Baltar had the power to protect Laura, or anybody, for that matter. He was a puppet, and was so drugged most of the time, he couldn't have known what was going on. Maybe that one time we saw, he did get wind of her being there, or the cylons asked him to talk to her, but did he know about all the other times, or did he prevent her from getting picked up, tortured or everything else? No- he wouldn't have stuck his neck out for her, and the information she had was far too valuable for the cylons to ignore because he asked them to.

3. I think Zarek would have realized very quickly that there was no chance that Bill would work with him- because isn't it Laura who tells Bill what Zarek did on NC? Without that, without knowing what really went on down there, Bill would kick Zarek out instantly, and I suspect, eradicate the democratic leadership of the fleet altogether and simply institute martial law. And, I suspect no one really would have had a problem with that at that point. But, I think there would have been a continuing problem with trying to deal with civilians, and keep order, and eventually instead of a military mutiny, there would have been a massive civilian uprising.

4. My fanon says it was quiet and personal- Laura simply showing up at some point in his quarters, dirty and shell-shocked and an emotional wreck is pretty much the way I see it, and it's how I like to think it happened. Sadly, nothing hugely romantic, no hot reunion sex, but a very cathartic moment for them both.
larsfarm77: Laura drinking NClarsfarm77 on February 8th, 2013 02:39 am (UTC)
I think a lot of Laura's role was in name- instead of it just being a bunch of people getting together to start anarchy, her presence in it lent it credibility and legitimacy.

That's a great point, and it's definitely going to pull quality people to the cause.

2. I'm pretty sure you're right that the cylons asked him or made him talk to her, figuring one human might be able to reach/influence another (yet not knowing what they think of each other now).

3. Martial law, eh? Works as a temporary measure as the civilian government sorts itself out. I love how, if it goes on too long, the military mutiny becomes a civliian one.

4. LOVE your image of Laura. That would be a beautiful moment.
some bitch who will pop a cap in your ass: fangirl mary gc baby personera_raydor on February 7th, 2013 11:52 pm (UTC)
1) I feel like the resistance still saw Laura as their leader. She took that leadership role. While Tigh was the one coming up with what to do, it was Laura guiding them.

2) I think he protected her as much as he possibly could because he did care deeply for Laura in the long run. However, when the Cylons took over more and more, it was out of his hands.

3) Oh gods, no. They're both very headstrong men. Adama would have sooner killed Zarek than have to work with him. Zarek is an instigator, it just wouldn't have gone well for anyone.

4) lol. I think it was just him walking onto Colonial One and realizing it was her and not Zarek or Baltar and just being thrilled with it. Though EJO thinks they loved each other by then, I don't think they did. I think they may have embraced, but it would have been very platonic for Laura as she just saw him as a very close friend at the time.

Great questions!
larsfarm77: Laura detentionlarsfarm77 on February 8th, 2013 02:46 am (UTC)
1. I thought it was pretty amazing how Tigh stepped up (now that you mention him). I never really liked the character until NC. I agree that the people looked to Laura for leadership, but we didn't see her at a lot of the resistance meetings early on. I wonder if they were trying to protect her (and met with her separately)?

4. Reading this, I immediately thought of almost a bookend scene to the one in LDYB where Laura has tears in her eyes, but Bill has convinced her not to steal the election. Just a really emotional, but quiet reunion.
our little life is rounded with a sleep: A/R ADFMS sexitimesdefyingnormalcy on February 8th, 2013 02:46 am (UTC)
Thanks for the rec! I've got that bookmarked for later. :)

1) I do think that she had a more involved role than we saw. I think that she worked with Tigh on the planning and plotting bit. I can't see her doing super physical things only because she just recently recovered from cancer, and thus her body would not have been up for a ton of running, etc.

2) Yes, absolutely. I think that anytime the cylons wanted to bring her in for more aggressive questioning, he would have put his foot down. I think that he would have stopped any sort of physical torture, for example, from being inflicted on her.

3) Um, no. LOL. I think that he would have insisted that someone, anyone take up the position and lock Zarek up in the brig. I can't even imagine how different the NC aftermath would have been without Laura and her blanket pardon. The fleet would have probably had a series of attempted mutinies and mass murders

4) I think that he would have gone over to Colonial One as soon as he heard that she was alive and safe. And they would have....reuinited all night long. ;)
larsfarm77: NC enjoy where my hand islarsfarm77 on February 8th, 2013 04:03 am (UTC)
I can't see her doing super physical things only because she just recently recovered from cancer, and thus her body would not have been up for a ton of running, etc.

I can't shake the idea that Laura would want to help people, even at a risk to herself, but i find it harder to see her running around setting up bombs, etc. That execution I think would have been on Tigh and his recruits.

I can happily disagree on 2, just because of the way the cylons were able to manipulate Baltar. He didn't seem to have any real power, unless her protection was what he asked for in return for speaking with her? Hmm. Even then I find it hard to believe he would stick his neck out for anyone.

I think that he would have gone over to Colonial One as soon as he heard that she was alive and safe. And they would have....reuinited all night long. ;)


♥ ♥ ♥ Hell yeah :D ;)
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